INSOMNIA STREAM： CHALLENGER EDITION - 08/22/2026

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00:09:31 Welcome to the Insomnia Stream Challenger Edition. I'm your host, of course, Devon Stack, and no, it's not about the Challenger space shuttle thing. I know how that can be confusing. It made things difficult to research. I'll tell you that much. You start looking up like 80s, 80s Challenger, and.
00:10:01 Yeah, just lots of exploding space shuttle stuff. That's not what this is about. No, not not at all. Not at all. It's gonna be a little nuanced tonight. A little nuanced, a little bit. I wasn't sure what I was getting myself into when I started researching this. It's one of those things where I thought I I thought I had like a I had a predetermined view of things, and then as as things unfolded, I changed my mind, and then as they unfolded further, I changed my mind again. I was like, I don't know, this little comp this this is this is more this is not black and white. This is not black and white. However, however, a lot of people think that that it is.
00:10:52 A lot of a lot of normy slop has been made about this topic, which is kind of what started all this, anyway. Did I say I'm your host, Devon Stack? I think I did. I think I already did. Hope you guys are having a good. I mean, August is almost already over. It's a little insane. Little insane. Almost, almost up to September already. Anyway, let's let's dive. We we have quite a bit to go through actually tonight.
00:11:25 We we this is a lot of meat on on this. I don't know meat thing. Drinking lots of coffee. It's a creme. It's creme brulee flavored, creme brulee Dunkin' Donuts coffee doesn't really taste like creme brulee or Dunkin' Donuts for that matter. It just tastes like coffee with something in it that's doesn't taste quite like soap, but it's I don't know definitely not not like crumbling.
00:12:06 Anyway, what started this sort of, and I we've done like I've done like a stream kind of about this topic. There's there's a lot of of of I don't know if I'd call it propaganda, but there's definitely been campaigns against a a certain type of way, a certain type of way of dealing with with troubled teens.
00:12:37 You know, there there's I think that's called like wilderness therapy or something like that, where they they ship off like if you've got some drug addicted teen, this was big in the 80s and 90s, you have this drug addicted teen, you ship them off to like some weirdos that take them out to the forest or something, and I don't know, they come back and they're fixed or something like that.
00:13:01 That's the idea. Lots of lots of abuse allegations. Lots of things have gone wrong. People have died. People have died. And there's there's very egregious examples of this. Like I said, I did a stream about a a place. I think it was called Circle S or something like that. It was I probably should have dug it up, but it was in the Arizona desert, run by Jews, of course.
00:13:32 A Jewish couple essentially had this deal with the California and Arizona, I guess, court system, where they would be sent these troubled youths that they would then beat and sexually abuse, and it was because I had done the stream that I kind of had like this preconceived notion about how what a lot of these programs were like, and that seems to be you know that there's a lot of opportunity for abuse and that sort of a thing happening when you just send drug addicted teens out with randos to remote areas.
00:14:07 So that's kind of what I thought I was getting myself into when I looked into this, and I especially got that impression when I began to watch a Netflix documentary about such a program. It was called Hell Camp. Hell Camp, Teen Nightmare. Hell Camp, Teen Nightmare. And they they even open it up. It's a documentary, but they open it up like it's some kind of horror film. Like you what you start to watch this, you're like, holy shit! This is like uh, you know what? What exactly is going on? So, if you were to watch, you know, Hell Camp, Teen Nightmare, this is this is how it opens up.
00:14:51 I went to sleep thinking I'd be going to school the next day. I was 15. House was dark. My parents weren't there, and I was woken up by two men standing over my bed. They were big. They look like mountain men. They're like, "Get up, get dressed. You're coming with us. They grabbed me and forcibly removed me from my house. I was taken to the airport. They had hired a private plane.
00:15:34 When we were on the flight, he's like, "Do you want to know where you're going? And I'm like, "Nope, because I didn't want them to know that I was afraid. I got in the car with a woman who called herself Mad Cat and a guy who called himself Mad Dog, and I remember being like, "What the fuck is this? They drove me into the middle of the desert, and then there's a fire in the distance, and they handed me a note written on the back of an empty bill envelope. This is for the best. We love you. And that's when I knew that my parents paid these people to kidnap me and take me to the program.
00:16:22 Oh my God, the horror! So right away, I'm watching this, and I'm like, the physiog doesn't lie. Okay, I already hate this bitch. I already, I just, I can look at her, and I can tell that she probably deserved whatever This was also all right. Let's look into this this the specific program she's talking about. It was called the Challenger Foundation. It was run by a a Mormon guy actually by the name of Steve Cartisana or Cartisano Cart. I don't know some kind of Spanishy last name.
00:17:01 I think it's Steve Cartasano, and they they ran it out. They had a couple, I guess, locations. The one she went to was in Utah. I think that was like the the main southern Utah. I think main location. They would kidnap, you know, with the parents' permission.
00:17:17 Obviously, the parents would pay them to do this. They would kidnap them, take them out to the middle of the desert, and it was like survival training type shit. And by the end of it, they were supposed to be nice little Mormon kids, essentially, right?
00:17:37 Um, in this documentary, they open up with the Paris Hilton stuff because I guess Paris Hilton was sent to a similar, not this exact program, but a inspired by, I guess you could say, program where she alleged there was a bunch of abuse, and she started a campaign in 2020. And and and look, if you go to YouTube, it's full of all these shorts of, well, lots of girls that look like this talking about.
00:18:09 Then they beat me, and it was horrible. And it's it became like a thing. It became like a a a way to be a victim in a way. And again, not to say there wasn't abuses. I've done a stream where there was one particularly bad place where someone died, and maybe more than one person died, and they were being systematically raped by a Jewish guy and his wife in the Arizona desert.
00:18:33 That sort of thing has certainly happened. And then you know it's all hell camp, teen nightmare. So I looked into it because I was expecting. Well, there's probably the same sort of thing going on. You know, just because they're it's a Mormon guy and not a Jew doesn't mean it's going to be that much different. And then I started to notice that actually, surprisingly enough, that does make a difference a little bit.
00:18:57 So I found some original reporting on this program to kind of see exactly like how bad was it like what exactly were they doing to these kids that that traumatized them because the the stream we did I mean it was it was pretty horrific and it was I mean it was torture it was torture and it was sexual torture it was like weird psychological torture and. and I was like, "Well, I was kind of you know expecting that kind of a thing.
00:19:28 This was a news program called the Reporters from Fox back in the I want to say late '80s, early '90s, and they it was almost like a ride along, where they went along with one of these groups, and kind of documented because it was becoming a little controversial. Prior prior to it being controversial, though, and this will come into play later, as far as my, I guess, complex feelings about this whole. This was heralded as a a great solution to the the problem that boomers were having with their kids.
00:20:12 See, boomers were discovering that by unraveling all the social norms that they had, well, and ushering in a bunch of people that that weren't founding stock Americans, they were experiencing a lot of well, a lot of unruly youths, a lot of unruly youths in their in their midst, and they didn't know how to deal with it. And and rather than trying to Parent, I guess more effectively, they were outsourcing.
00:20:46 They were outsourcing the parenting to different. You know, this was just one flavor of of a solution. They were sending them to you know their kids to treatment facilities. They were sending their kids to these wilderness things. They were sending their kids to psychologists. I mean, it was you know again they they they were outsourcing the the parenting and medicating.
00:21:08 This is also think about this around this same time period is when you had a bunch of teenagers were now suddenly being put on SSRIs. ADD was was now a thing. They were they were putting kids on ADD medication, so this was again it was it was it was another form of outsourcing all these medications. Like let's not actually try to fix or figure out why Billy's a fucking mess.
00:21:34 Let's just give him a bunch of pills or send him to these guys in the forest or whatever, right? So that that's that's that's that was the fad, and they were these, including this guy who you'll meet here in a moment, the Steve Cartesano. I'm gonna say Cardisano. It looks like Cartesiano. I'm sure they'll say here in a second. But they he he was on all the different daytime talk show hosts promoting his program.
00:22:00 People thought it was great. Finally, someone's going to teach these kids some respect. You know, they'll they'll learn to to appreciate what mom and dad have provided for them. That sort of a thing. And so this new segment kind of follows what happens when one of these troubled teens gets sent off. So here, I'll play a little bit of this here.
00:22:23 For 60 days and 60 nights, they live in the wilderness. Parents pay 1000s to send their problem kids to Helen back.
00:22:32 I'm homesick. I miss my parents. I understand that I turned against them, but I just want to go home and prove to them that I can be beautiful who they want
00:22:45 me to be. I'll do anything just to not have to be here anymore. So yeah, this was. They also had like the the lighter versions of this. You know, like the boot camp for for troubled teens. Like that was another popular thing.
00:23:00 Teens in trouble. A parent can give them all the love, all the discipline, all the schooling in the world, but still teenagers turn to drugs, cult groups, or become runaways. What's a parent to do if he's tried everything and the child continues on the path of self-destruction?
00:23:16 Well, some parents are turning their kids over to a bizarre survival course designed to straighten out problem children, a controversial wilderness program that costs parents up to $20,000 and may cost their kids a lot more.
00:23:32 Oh, what is the cost? I wonder. So that's the big thing. Got to factor into how we how we view this, it was really expensive. Like it was, it was really expensive because it was it was about 20 it was it was 15 to $20,000 in like 1988 money, and it's it's two months long, right? And so, when you think about, you know, if if you try to put yourself in the in the boomer parent shoes for a moment, and say, well, you know, I was just trying to do what was best for my kids. I couldn't afford to take off work.
00:24:16 Well, you're paying, I mean, $20,000 for for two months for two months. Um, I mean, wouldn't couldn't you just take two months off of work and take your kid camping for a little? I mean, that's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. So that's just something to factor in as we as we look at this a little closer that they are paying that kind of fucking money to send their kid off to a program like this.
00:24:48 It hurts so much. I don't like the news. I saw the promises. I'm sick of it. Man, come on, man. That hurts.
00:25:00 Let me ask you a question, okay? What are you here for?
00:25:03 I don't know.
00:25:04 You don't know why you're here?
00:25:05 Just get some tats or something.
00:25:08 Get some tests, okay? Let me make some explanations to you, okay? Why you're here? We decided to use a collider to get her up here. Down in southern Utah, you're going to be going for a wilderness experience program that's going to last 63 days.
00:25:23 So that's that's one of the counselors breaking it to a kid that your boomer dad, the guy that was like, we lied to her her daughter, rather than than have to have any kind of confrontation because you know we we hate that. We just said that you're going to get we're run some tests.
00:25:41 Yeah, we're going to send you off to, yeah. So I guess there were different packages. You could pay the extra money to have them come and kidnap your kid out of bed, and not have to actually ever have any kind of conversation with your child at all.
00:25:53 They would just be removed from the home physically and and whisked whisked away at night, and then you could scrawl a note on on something that said like sorry son or daughter you're in good hands in the desert or you could just lie and say no we're sending you off to get these tests performed and once you got off the airplane in southern Utah they would be like yeah actually not really the I mean I guess in in a in a manner of speaking you're about to to well be subjected to a test, a 60 day, 63 day long, I guess test.
00:26:31 So she's you know they're breaking the bad news to her, and these other kids they're loading up in the van and about to take to the the facility.
00:26:44 Hours later, they arrive at a seedy cabin on the edge of the wilderness. Here, they are forced to sit on the floor like prisoners of war. Most are confused and angry. I
00:26:55 don't like it. Why? Because my parents lied to me. What did they say? They said something got blood taken. Had a special lunch or something. My parents lied to me too. What did they say? They told me that I was just going to see my grandparents for a couple days, and then I was going shopping for prom dresses because they told me I could go to the prom. And they stop here, and some guy comes in. Do you know why you're here? Well, no.
00:27:13 My husband knows I was failing eighth grade for the second time, and my parents went up to school and talked to school, and then they came home, and when I got home, they talked to me and told me, "Dero, I was coming here.
00:27:22 I just got myself into too much trouble with the law to the point where I'm turning 18 this summer. My parents can't do anything for me anymore. Do you know why you're in this program?
00:27:34 'Cause I smoke dope and I'm funky.
00:27:39 They are strip searched in a back room, stripped of their contraband, drugs, cigarettes, stripped of their pride.
00:27:46 Don't be surprised if I kill myself in here. I don't think you're gonna kill yourself. Don't be surprised. It's not that bad. Trust me. He
00:27:57 is. See now. Here's where I start getting mixed feelings again. It's like, come on, dude! Don't be surprised if I kill myself. The guy's just like, "You're not gonna, you're not gonna kill yourself, bro. It's like, it's really not that bad. You're just, we're going camping, which it turns out that's that's literally what it is. It's it's it's like scout camp. It's like survival training. It's not that bad, okay. It really isn't that bad.
00:28:26 If you were-if you were in Boy Scouts, this would have been fun. I mean, not all of it. It's not 100% fun, okay. I mean, it's not supposed to be like fun, fun. And if you're a drug addict, and now you're deprived of your drugs, and having to march to the desert and all this other stuff.
00:28:46 It's probably really not fun, but this is-it's-it's really not that bad. It's really not that bad. At least it's not that bad if you're not a dysgenic freak, which some of these kids are, you see, a lot of people like well, like like I like like I went to scout camp and I you know did camping and stuff like that.
00:29:15 I would find this kind of thing a little little rewarding, kind of fun, challenging perhaps, but definitely not like some traumatic experience. But if you're like this dysgenic city fuck that doesn't doesn't come from pioneer stock, doesn't doesn't have any kind of I don't know robustness About you, yeah. All right.
00:29:44 This this might be a little this might be a little much. This might be a little much, and I guess that's kind of that's another part of the complexity of this. Is I kind of feel like this made sense to the kinds of people that were running. Some of these programs because they did come from those kinds of backgrounds. They did have like an outdoorsy kind of background.
00:30:08 Their family, their their heritage, was one of pioneers or one of settlers, and and this sort of a thing did not seem unusual or cruel. It seemed like returning back to the old ways, in a way, going back to tradition, like our our ancestors survived off of walking across the Great Plains and eating their shoes when they were out of food, like this sort of a thing, right? Well, not the case for everybody, especially by the 1980s.
00:30:38 We had weaker stock amongst us, and they did not fare so well under these conditions, and or nor did they respond so well. So going back to the Netflix documentary, they show a lot of this footage of this guy, and look, he's wearing like this weird karate shirt, and I'm sure this went really hard in 1988, you know. But you know, it seems kind of like you know, kind of, kind of try hard.
00:31:11 But it was probably try hard a little bit in 1988 too. But again, they try to make it seem like it's this over the top shit. Like, oh my god, I can't believe they subjected kids to this. Do you understand? My name is Horsehair. That's the that's the name he goes by is Horsehair.
00:31:49 So Horsehair here welcomes them. What they do is once they they go to the cabin and they take away if they have like a a weed pipe or any joints or whatever or cigarettes and you know they take all their contraband, they they then put them on a on a or I guess in a van or a truck, and they drive them out to the middle of nowhere to meet horsehair,
00:32:14 horsehair out by a big bonfire, who screams at them a little bit and you know intimidates them and tells them you know for the next the next two months you're to I'm your boss I'm gonna tell you what to do and you're gonna be surviving out here in the desert and it's supposed to freak out kids that quite frankly should have been getting some kind of discipline at home and like I said this kind of thing so far I'm like not a big deal not a big deal I mean, this would be kind of-I mean, in a way, be kind of fun. Be like you're-you're in a weird movie in a way.
00:32:47 Like I'm being kidnapped in the middle of night and taken out to the fucking desert, and like the horse hair is screaming. I mean, I would be-I would be kind of like captivated by the whole experience. I'd be-I'd be into it. I'd be like, all right, but what's going to happen next is a lot more interesting.
00:33:02 So this is this is horsehair now, or I guess this documentary came out in 2023, and of course they the the way they frame it, he's like they try to make him seem like he's some kind of lunatic, and he he he can't even see what he did wrong, and and he's on an oxygen tank, so it's like, oh, it's oh, he was so tough back then, but now he's like this frail fat man with the, you know, like of course the the he was he's obviously a hunter, you know. Let's make sure to have the the antlers behind him.
00:33:37 We broke him down, but we didn't break him down to hurt them. We didn't break them down to punish them. We were breaking them down to get rid of all the old crap and to rebuild, help them to be a better, more positive person.
00:33:55 And I believe him. I think that's what this guy had in mind. I think, and and and look, there's testimony from a lot of people that went through it who actually did respond well to it. They were like, "Yeah, this guy's he was he was a good guy. He taught us survival skills. It wasn't like a dick or anything like that.
00:34:12 But in this movie, because the the Tumblr girl in the beginning, who is forever shattered from her experience, you know, they they they have all these scary shots. Like he looks like a horror film bad guy. The way that they framed this, and he's like in this weird, creepy cabin, right? With his oxygen. There he is. There. Look at that. There's horsehair. The years have not been kind to horsehair. So let's go back to the documentary. There,
00:34:43 a lot of these kids, this was it, or they were going to jail.
00:34:49 The kids aren't going to be happy to be here. They're going to be hungry. They're going to be tired. They're going to be dirty. We have to do things that work. Talking to them and just loving them won't get them to change their. Are you all listening to me?
00:35:02 Yes, sir.
00:35:02 Steve Cartesenal was in the Air Force. I was in the Air Force. So when we met, we had that common. He felt that the youth needed some sort of different way to help them. We were way ahead of our time. It was a 63-day program, and we had three different sections. We took them to that very bottom level first.
00:35:30 We gave them what they need, but that it wasn't free. There was a cost to everything. We provided them food, but the food was at a different location. They had to travel on foot to get there. We weren't punishing anyone. There are consequences, both good and bad, for our actions. You determine whether it's a negative or a positive consequence.
00:35:57 I mean, you have to understand we're not talking about kids here that are that are going to church on Sunday, or that are going to youth dances during the middle of the week. We're talking about kids for the most part that are out of control, that are violent, that are going to seduce your children, give them drugs, and steal your car and your jewelry if they can. They're here because they're manipulators, and they've learned how to work the system.
00:36:19 So that was Steve Cartasano. That's the guy who ran this program. They make a big deal out of the fact that he's always describing the kids that are sent to the program as master manipulators. But I can tell you, as a bad kid myself, that that is a apt description. That is a very apt description. I acted out, and I've told you guys before. When I was 14, I ran away from home and was arrested months later, 1000s well over 1000 miles away.
00:36:58 When I was 14, I was hauled back into into well dragged back across the country back home, and my parents, rather than send me to one of these things, they send me to a shrink, and I immediately manipulated the shrink into thinking it was my parents' fault. I knew exactly what I was doing, and that's what a lot of these bad kids will do, and that's what you know. When you're when you're a high IQ troublemaker, you know you you manipulate adults, and you know that's that's what a lot of these kids were doing.
00:37:33 And so I, you know, they try to make it sound like he's some kind of evil fuck for describing them as as manipulators, but that's that's a lot of troublemaker kids are. Does that mean that this is a great program for them? Not necessarily, but you know. So they they make a big deal of that. They'll go more into that here in a minute. Then they talk about here's the there's the Tumblr check from the beginning.
00:37:57 So she talks about how horrible it was, how horrible it was having to go through this big march that horsehair was describing. That it's broken up into three different sections. The first section, they it's like a detox. The first section is they don't give you a whole lot of food.
00:38:14 They give you very little water. They, in fact, the water that you do drink, as far as I could tell, is kind of like if you're doing a thru hike, like on the Appalachian Trail, where you're literally filling up a bottle of water from like like a watering hole and putting drops of bleach or iodine into it. So it's it's like nasty. I mean, it's it's okay to drink, but it's probably doesn't taste good.
00:38:37 And they're they're collecting they're foraging for food, you know, and then after you get to the through the first section, then they they slowly upgrade the accommodations, basically.
00:38:48 So by the the second section, you get like maybe like oatmeal and some other food, and by like the last section, like you know, there's they bring you and they actually they'll kill a sheep, and and I mean they don't make the kids kill the sheep, but they bring in like a sheep and they teach them how to like gut an animal and how to butcher an animal and it's you know like I said I would have thought it was cool, I mean it would have been hard, but that would have been you know you would have gotten like a sense of accomplishment out of it, but not so much if you're this chick, you know. So this chick, not you know, not responding.
00:39:24 And look, by the way, beautiful scenery, beautiful fucking scenery the whole way.
00:39:35 I slept on the ground, no tent, nothing. Like it was rocky. In the morning, there's like a bunch of kids. I mean, skinny shirts were ripped, and a girl came up to me, and I was chewing gum, and she asked if she could have it. She wanted the gum that I was chewing. I'm like, it has no flavor. She's like, I don't care. And I'm like, okay. And then another kid asked me for my soup, and I was gonna give him my soup. And then a girl said, Don't give me your soup. You need your soup. And I'm like, Okay.
00:40:28 Oh, it's terrible. She had to sleep on the ground, and some chick wanted her gum, and like she had to eat soup or something. Again, it's like I'm waiting for like the part where they're getting horribly abused, and it just keeps not happening. So this is going back to the documentary from the '90s where they had the ride along, and they described sort of the same kind of a thing where it's they're foraging for their food. It's you know it's it's it's you know it's hardcore scout camp.
00:40:59 If they are hungry, they will forage for food. If they want to cook, they will learn to make fire. Here, there are no matches.
00:41:09 See, when you start building fire, you start off with small stuff and you get bigger.
00:41:13 There also is no toilet paper. In its place for the next six weeks, they will use sagebrush.
00:41:19 Being going without toilet paper for three weeks is really disgusting. They really-that is one thing that they should not take away from us.
00:41:25 Day three, they are filthy, hungry, and tired. They have covered 60 miles. For the last 20, Jenny was forced to carry a 15-pound rock. Her punishment for not cooperating with the group.
00:41:39 I could go so much fancy without the silver rock. Seems like all mixed up.
00:41:48 Oh, the horror! Ah, the the whiny bitch had to carry a 15 pound rock. There's no toilet paper. Again, this is for people where this is was just normal life for your ancestors. It doesn't seem like a big deal, you know. Like it doesn't seem like when you know that, like, well, great grandpa had did this for fun, you know. Like this is like this was like just what life was like not that long ago in this country, and then you get a bunch of whiny little fucking babies that crying about the 15 pound rock and like you know, not having toilet paper.
00:42:23 It's like okay, a little gross, but still, I mean, the pioneers didn't have toilet paper. Okay, it's we we we. It's not like we couldn't settle the West because there was no toilet paper. So it's like they try to make it seem like it's this big fucking deal. Here's the here's Steve Cartazano talking about how a lot of these kids will make excuses.
00:42:47 You know, some kids will say I have you know a bad back and or my knee hurts, and you look at the medical report, and they've never hurt their knee. They've never had a bad back. After the girls all claim they're pregnant, can do this. The boys all have a football injury, their knee or their ankle. So what we do is we get a big tree limb has has a Y in it, and we make kind of a makeshift crutch out of it.
00:43:06 Weighs about 50 pounds. We say now here use this, and you know as you start to use this, it might loosen up. We always give them a way out, and you'd be amazed how often they go 50 yards down the trail and they're going, oh, feels better. Hey, thanks a lot. And they're you know they're lugging this big old crutch, and so we've seen it all.
00:43:23 Yeah. So he's like, yeah, they all have excuses. So we make them carry around this big, heavy crutch, and then oh, well, wouldn't you know it? Their their leg suddenly is is feeling fine. And again, it's just it's kids that have never had to do anything.
00:43:35 It's kids that are soft that have never had to do anything, and they're having to do something for the first time. I mean, and for fuck's sake, you got horsehair teaching them how to make fire. I mean, come on. I think it sounds fun personally, but meanwhile, the Netflix documentary
00:43:53 was like 113 degrees, and I hiked like 500 miles in tennis shoes. It was basically just surviving.
00:44:00 Big walk from that. out here. Keep walking.
00:44:06 At each stage, life got a little better. The second group, we had a hand cart, and so they could put all their gear into the cart, but they all had to push it. And our third group, we brought a butter churn out to them. We brought a Dutch oven.
00:44:25 This is all very Mormon pioneer. I'm like the hand cart thing, especially for those who don't know. A lot of the the Mormon pioneers that that settled Utah, they didn't have money to bring their their shit from the East Coast with a they couldn't afford like oxen or or a mule or whatever, and so there was they had Mormons had this well they made they had handcart companies, and so that's that's what the hand in fact that's what they looked like the handcart they had right there, that's that's where they got the idea from.
00:44:58 It's a Mormon thing. And so they would carry their shit from New York to Salt Lake in a handcart. Okay, that's just what our ancestors did. Okay, so if you had to go like like a fraction of the way that like our ancestors did to like found the state of Utah, it just doesn't seem like that big of a deal to us, it just doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Like when we know that, like you know, great grandpa had to carry all of his shit and his wife and a baby in a fucking handcart from New York to Utah, and you just have to go like a few miles with this fucking thing. Not a big deal, not a big fucking deal.
00:45:44 And you know, like you said, it gets a little better. They bring them like butter and stuff, you know. But if you're one of these, one of these whiny little bitches, I guess it's you know, oh the horror. So they talk to this girl, this girl Kenny, and there's there's an interesting difference in how she responded versus the Tumblr girl. I'm telling you, the physiog never lies.
00:46:12 I think, given everything that was going on in my life at that point in time, I didn't mind that it was hard and dusty and dirty, and that we all smelled terrible.
00:46:23 Here, we've been practicing the balance of things. There's the spirit in all this that we do. It's always been that way from the very beginning of time.
00:46:38 Living at home was hard. My mother and I were constantly arguing. I was not doing well in school, and then, in the month after my father passed away, I did attempt taking my own life.
00:46:56 Can everybody gather around over here, make a horseshoe shape?
00:47:01 But this felt different. There was a different energy about the group, and there wasn't a lot of time to really think about my life. I was purely in survival mode at that point in time. That was comforting for me.
00:47:19 Our Father in heaven, we ask you to help us at this time be mindful of the sacrifice that this animal is representing to us. We say this in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
00:47:43 See, fucking awesome!
00:47:47 I thrived. I really, I really enjoyed being there.
00:47:55 We're going to show you different ways of cooking. One is the pit. We're going to use the stomach to cook.
00:48:04 Get ready to start. Get the meat in there.
00:48:06 I mean, fucking awesome. But again, like I said, the physiog never lies. The girl on the top did not enjoy her time. The girl on the bottom thought it was kind of fun. Can you spot the difference? I'm just saying. I'm just saying, and this is not the only time there will be a difference just like this. And this is, like I said, different people will respond differently to different to adversity differently.
00:48:41 How about that? You know, there are some people who thrive when faced with adversity, and there's other people that that collapse, collapse into themselves like a dying star at the first sign of trouble. Whereas other people thrive and grow and and learn their their their limits, and you know, girl on the bottom is representative of that. Girl on the top, not so much. How
00:49:13 many of you were glad to be here the first minute you got off and arrived? One, two. How many of you are glad to be here now, how many of you've learned something about yourself that you didn't know when you got here? And it's hard to explain to somebody who doesn't understand
00:49:38 it. I felt accomplished. At the end of every single day, I felt accomplished.
00:49:44 Okay, again, there's the difference. Felt the one on the bottom felt accomplished. One on the top thought she was tortured. But yeah, like a lot of people, like I said, a lot of people actually responded well to this. And you know it wasn't as bad as as they make it sound.
00:50:03 Now again, this is one program out of many, and there are a lot of horror stories, and there's some bad ones with this one too, which we're going to get into in a second here. But you know, generally speaking, it's complicated. It's complicated. So the next guy or person that that they interview, who obviously did not respond well to it either, well, again, let's let's let the physiog do the talking. There he is, right there. There he is. Let's let's have a listen to like this guy's backstory.
00:50:39 I drank a lot. I smoked a lot of pots. Every so often, I want to hit a LSD, or I smoke a little bit of PCP.
00:50:50 Okay. Surprise, surprise! The guy that's smoking PCP didn't have a good time. This guy again, the physiog doesn't lie. So the dysgenic fuck that liked to smoke PCP, oh, he had a bad time, did he? He he didn't like having to be told what to do. He had a bad time having to actually walk and and and gather his own food and and just not being catered to. Who would have thought that this fucking guy, right?
00:51:25 I had only been there. I had I had not been there that long, but I wanted so much to get back to my McDonald's at home, and my Oreos, and my my Round Top ice cream, my good stuff.
00:51:39 Ah, the goy slop. He missed the look at this guy. Look at this fucking guy. Oh, look at that. Ah, the alpha goy. Ah, he he did not have a good time. So this fuck here. Ah, he has a a bad time, and he won't he won't deal with the counselors say that you know he won't march when they tell him to march, and he causes all kinds of problems, and he bitches and moans, and so they they yeah they they they deal out a little corporal punishment.
00:52:16 This one morning I just refused to get up, and they. counselors told me I had to get up. I said no, and said get up. I said no. You are not going to force me up. And he hit me. He literally hit me. There was another counselor. That counselor told him to tie my feet together at the ankles, and he started dragging me. And yep, that hurt. But after only 10 feet or so, he stopped.
00:53:00 He said, "Now, are you ready to hike? And I was in pain, and so he kept dragging me. The skin was scraped off of my back. Every 40 or 50 feet, he'd stop and he'd say, "Are you ready to hike? I kept saying, "Do you are not going to make me hike. Steve Cartesiano did come out the next morning. They told me to be to remember that it was my fault that that had happened. That he left.
00:53:46 Oh, poor PCP kid. Oh, he was dragged, and he wouldn't get up, and so they kept dragging him, and he wouldn't get up. And then he's mad because they said it was his fault again. It's it's one of those things where it's like maybe you got sent there because you're just a piece of shit, and pieces of shit get treated like pieces of shit sometimes. So anyway, that's the backdrop, right?
00:54:16 That's what's going on at this camp when they do this episode of Donahue. Now Donahue, who who obviously we've we've covered in the past. For those of you who were too young to remember, had a a daytime talk show, you know, super ultra leftist liberal talk show, and this is the exact kind of thing he would have a big problem with. He would think it was fascism, and you know, in a in a very based sense, it kind of is right. This is the kind of Hitler Youth training I think we should do actually.
00:54:56 But you know, he has a big problem with this, and. He on this show, I don't. I clipped out a bunch of this, but the show is we're not. Well, we're not going to get into that. So there's one of the kids is suing, and I don't know. This is a a mix of of parents and kids that had a good time with the Challenger program, and one girl who didn't, and well, let's just say that the the the pattern the pattern persists.
00:55:27 Jennifer Hill from Mentor, Ohio. She's 17. Your stepmother is here with us in the audience. You your stepmother sent you to the Challenger Foundation in Utah last February. You liked it.
00:55:38 Yep.
00:55:40 You go out for 60. What's the story? What's the big deal? You you have to do solitary or solo. What is that?
00:55:47 Yeah, you go you go by yourself and you sit in in the desert. You have boundaries. You have to cook. You have to make your own fire. You have to make your own food. You are by yourself for three days. What's the first day of the program? You see that big guy with the bandana? I mean, he's kind of an awesome fella. He's my best friend. He was. Yeah. He's
00:56:06 the
00:56:08 most loveliest man I've ever known.
00:56:11 She's talking about horsehair, by the way. Oh, look, the so the the the blonde normal-looking chick. Yeah, she kind of liked
00:56:19 it. Uh huh. How do you explain this here? What's going on here? This, you heard this commentary from Elizabeth's lawyer. You didn't see any of that? No,
00:56:30 I was not with her.
00:56:31 Were you escorted to Utah?
00:56:32 No, I flew by myself.
00:56:35 Because you and your parents were just well, your mother were what? At each other,
00:56:40 huh? Yeah. It was biggest.
00:56:42 What scared your mother the most about what you were doing?
00:56:44 She didn't. She didn't really know what I was doing out there. She did not know. I could not. No,
00:56:49 no. I mean, before you went, why would she send you a nice cheerleader like you?
00:56:54 I tried to kill myself. I was depressed. I'd been in a hospital before, and she didn't know what else to do.
00:57:06 You had already gone to a couple of other programs, had you? Were you into pot?
00:57:10 No.
00:57:11 No dope.
00:57:11 No drugs.
00:57:12 No alcohol.
00:57:13 No alcohol.
00:57:13 You were depressed, and you actually were suicidal. So, Sophie Kaufman sits next to you, Jennifer. You're from Cleveland, Ohio, my favorite town. You're 18 years old.
00:57:24 Oh, the Jew, the city Jew didn't have a good time. Ah, I'm really surprised Kaufman didn't have a didn't have a wonderful time. Let's see how her experience went.
00:57:37 You went to this thing.
00:57:39 I didn't like it at all. Very unprofessional. I felt that it was also abusive. How? There was a student, a girl there, who refused to hike for whatever reasons, and I was told. Well, it was talked about in front of me by students and by staff how she was dragged on the ground, how she was tied up, how she was pulled by her hair, how she had dirt kicked into her face. I did not witness this myself, but I saw her when she got to Tippi Camp, and she had huge scars, wounds all over her face, her back, and her arms.
00:58:17 Well, that's completely untrue. Sophie wasn't there. She didn't see a thing. She's
00:58:20 acknowledged she didn't see it, you know.
00:58:21 And so, how naive can you be to to this kid that she's talking about was there because they're manipulators. These kids are master manipulators. Jenny was there. Ask Jenny what she saw, and we know that that didn't happen.
00:58:34 No, she nursed the girl back to health. Sophie what? Sophie took care of the girl, and put lotion on her back, and saw the wounds. She saw the girl when she was emaciated, and her eyes were sunken. And because the first three days, they don't.
00:58:52 So that's that's the Jew mom. So what happened here, I cut out because it just got too into the weeds and away from what we're talking about tonight, but the the case that they're talking about, there was a rich girl from I think New York who didn't want to go, who hit herself in the head with a rock, had one of the kids break one of her toes so she'd have to go to the hospital and wouldn't have to do the march, and then got herself emancipated because she was 17, and I guess in New York could do that, and and then started trying to sue her parents and the Challenger Foundation for $20 million with a Jew lawyer. So that's that's what they're talking about. There is. is again. I don't know. I don't know how. What I mean that. Well, we'll get into what happened to this organization, but that's the case they're talking about. And the the blonde chick who was actually there when this rich girl was there saw what happened and. You know, said that she was hurting herself and and just didn't want to do it. And the the the whiny Jew girl who didn't have a good time wasn't even there when this was going on. She was just basically spreading rumors because she she hated being there.
01:00:20 Sophie's mother, Dinah. Why'd you send her?
01:00:25 Because for the last five years before I sent her, I had tried to take care of her and deal with her myself. I felt I could no longer help her. She was depressed. She was sleeping most of the day. I found out she wasn't going to school. She had forged a report card, and we used to scream and fight all the time. I have two other daughters. This was no good for any of
01:00:45 us. I
01:00:46 thought they would help her. I thought that she would get counseling.
01:00:49 Does Sophie's father live at home?
01:00:50 Sophie's father is dead.
01:00:52 And have you remarried?
01:00:53 I have never been married, and I have three daughters. I've tried to raise them all
01:00:58 alone. Ah, the the Jew single mom. So the juicing a mom with her shit daughter has a problem with this now.
01:01:07 Here in the car, Sophie told me that they told her out there that I had signed custody over to them, and she was afraid that if she didn't be good and do as she was told, that maybe she'd never get to come back, and I would leave her there. I would never have left her anywhere.
01:01:23 When you send your kids there, you sign custody.
01:01:26 This is Jennifer's mother. Jennifer supports the Marilyn Hill supports the program. What?
01:01:31 How can they be against something that's saving children's lives? It's it's giving them back their life. As a parent, I have the right to try to save my child's life. That's right. The psychiatrists weren't doing it. The treatment centers weren't doing it. She's here. She's alive. She's beautiful. Was she abused? She doesn't look like she was abused. But there were
01:01:49 students who were. She
01:01:50 had a uterine infection, and she was in pain the whole time. She only took her to the hospital once a week. Excuse me. Once a week to the doctor. No, no.
01:02:00 So here's the other the other problem with this program and programs like this, as we'll get to here in a moment. It's not it's not just a matter of you know some kids aren't going to respond well because they are of weaker stock. Some kids aren't going to survive from sufficiently weak stock. Again, we'll get we'll get into that a second. But like, the it's not even so much that the the treatment's cruel. It's just that if you send like a weak dysgenic kid to survival camp, they might not hold up so well. You know, they might not hold up so well. So she sent her dysgenic, you know, Jew daughter, and who apparently is having like all these urinary tract infections or whatever. Anyway,
01:02:54 but I'm proud of the Challenge Foundation. We're saving lives. We're turning kids around. And for every parent or child that is dissatisfied, I have 100 parents and children that thank God that we're around. You know, I Dinah sent Sophie to us because we were her last hope, and I'm sorry that at 18 that Sophie doesn't like what she had to experience.
01:03:13 But when she's 38 and has teenagers of her own, then I'll spend a little bit more time worrying about it. You know, Dinah was mad at us before because of all the medical bills because she went to the doctor weekly and was checked. She came to our program with a lot of female problems, and I went. Yeah, and and the point is, is is until two weeks ago she was very satisfied with the program, but now that she's gotten all this media attention, that the story's gotten very very.
01:03:40 So that was another aspect of it too. Is she was mad because her daughter kept complaining about problems, and every time they she complained about problems, they had to take her to the hospital, so they wouldn't get sued. And then the hospital bills were racking up, and then there was this lawsuit from the rich girl that came in, and then you know of course, the Jew woman wanted to sue them also to cash in on that instead of having to pay all the medical bills that her daughter racked up while on their program.
01:04:10 Master manipulators
01:04:11 are these kids. These kids have two things in common, Phil. Usually, they have a very high IQ, and and they are master manipulators. They're blaming everybody else for the job. It's not my fault. It's mom's fault. It's dad's fault. I didn't flunk science class because I never went. Well,
01:04:26 let's look at master manipulator here. That's a conniving. Do you have any idea how easy it is to hate a master manipulator? I mean, I you know I feel I feel better about a drunk than a master manipulator. That that is very incendiary prejudicial language, in my opinion, mr.
01:04:43 Oh no! Well, that's your opinion. These are the type of kids that we get: kids that are rebellious, kids that are defiant, they're out of control, they're looking for help, kids that have learned that they can say one thing to one person, get away with it. There's so many people in our society today that are giving kids excuses. Kids need to learn this. Lesson that they are responsible for their own lives and accountable for their own actions. And when they're 25, all the excuses of why they quit high school or why they were doing drugs aren't going to matter, Phil.
01:05:11 Okay, so you know he's laying out the case that basically you know this is this is going to save them later. You know, again, when I'm watching this, when I'm researching this, I'm being pulled in different directions here. One, I it's not that bad, okay. Based on what I've seen of this program, really not that bad. I think I would have had a good time, honestly.
01:05:35 But two, it does seem like it's boomers that don't want to deal with their kids, shipping their kids off to randos out in the wilderness, where bad things could happen, and as you'll see, do. And this, you know, I think this guy, at least at this point in the story, it does start to change.
01:05:57 His heart's in the right place, or at least seemingly it is. I guess it's impossible to know, and you know. So it's it's kind of like you know, I could see how this it's it's a little complicated, a little complicated. And then you got Donahue, of course, the liberal who's very pissed off about the whole thing because, God forbid, you know, kids have to deal with any any kind of adversity.
01:06:24 How many? Just briefly here. How many on the staff? I have 50 people working for me. How many are 12 counts? How many are male?
01:06:32 About 35% No, excuse me. About 35 of the people.
01:06:36 35 of the 50 are the
01:06:38 max. And
01:06:39 what generally is their background? Have you got military personnel on the on the? We have
01:06:42 some with it. Well, I came out of the background. I was I was in special forces. That's where I learned my survival skills.
01:06:47 You were in special forces.
01:06:48 Yes, in the Air Force. I was a survival instructor.
01:06:50 Did you read Soldier Fortune magazine?
01:06:51 Absolutely not, Phil. I have four kids of my own, and I love working with kids, and I've always been able to reach them, and that's why this program works. It's not what I do or my staff does. It's Mother Nature, Bill.
01:07:01 I know that you'll just, you know, you're gonna, you will not read anything into these questions. Is there medical
01:07:06 soldier of Fortune magazine? That's Bill. Give me a break. Well,
01:07:10 you said no, didn't you? You didn't. That's
01:07:11 right. I said no.
01:07:15 Yeah. So he he obviously just hates it. He hates that it's that it's you know it's not like sending you to a Jew shrink.
01:07:24 In the beginning, the kids start out. It's a primitive. It's a primitive wilderness survival program. They start out with a wool blanket, a poncho, the clothes on their back, and things they need to cook with and carry water with. But they start, and much like the Indians used to, they use stone tools.
01:07:38 They start fires with a bow and drill, and let me tell you, after three or four days, they live off the land. They're taught how to forage food and fish and things like this. After three or four days, those pictures you saw in the beginning were the first day. These kids have toilet paper. These kids they use sagebrush. Think that mom and dad look pretty good. They're where would
01:07:56 this
01:07:56 country be without toilet paper? We wouldn't have had pioneers that went across the country because they didn't have toilet paper. The point
01:08:01 is, the point is, if I can add one second.
01:08:04 That's the lawyer, by the way, the guy on the left that's suing him. That's like, oh, they didn't have toilet paper. So again, they asked the the blonde, non dysgenic girl if she had a good time.
01:08:17 How did you feel this program helped you in the ways that the other programs didn't.
01:08:21 Well, I want to say that I did go to a psychiatric hospital. That did not help me. The fact that there was not there was not psychiatric counselors out there. That's not what helped me. The actual thing that helped me was being on the desert, learning how to make it on my own.
01:08:38 I could not accomplish things on my own, I had no self-confidence, no self-esteem. I gained it. I learned how to make a fire. I learned how to keep warm. I learned how to make shelter. I learned how this didn't
01:08:49 happen to you, Sophie.
01:08:51 Where am I going to need to make a ball drill fire in Cleveland? We
01:09:00 are not the same, honey. No, we are not the same. Through Ellis Island, you came for the money. We are not the same. You don't belong here. You're cheap in everything you touch, you whiny little bitch, you stupid silly slut. We are not the same, honey. No, no, we are not the same.
01:09:35 We're just not the same. We're just-we're not cut from the same cloth. We're just not. So that's really, I think, the the crux of it is is we're not dealing with sturdy people in this country, and this that began that process began a long time ago. We just have dysgenic weak people now.
01:09:58 Of course, she's. Jewish, so she's like a extreme example, but that was the case for a lot of these kids, where you had just weak dysgenic people, which is why they had problems in the first place. That's why a lot of these people had drug problems.
01:10:13 That's why you had that dipshit PCP smoking faggot that was like, oh, then they dragged me because I wouldn't walk, and so yeah, they're not going to respond to something like that. Now, I would say altogether, this is a bad idea. It's a bad idea unless it's it's something that's handled through like a a religious organization where you know the people and the people know you.
01:10:40 Like the reason why, for example, I I did similar things with Scout Camp. That was the environment. the The people that were the Scout leaders that took us out to go learn survival skills were people that we went to church with every Sunday. They knew my parents. My parents knew them. You know, you do things like that, and it's going to work out. When you just start outsourcing them to randos.
01:11:02 You, it doesn't make any sense because you you are going to have problems and problems they did have. In fact, it was not soon after this aired that this woman here or girl, I guess, Kristen Chase, Kristen Chase died doing the the challenger thing. She died of well, we don't know. Allegedly, it was dehydration, right?
01:11:30 But then he was charged with negligent homicide, and a lot of that was actually the local law enforcement did not like that this was going on. They didn't like that this was going on because of the complaints from people all around the country that were finding out about this, and it was tying up a lot of their their resources, having to go in there and and make sure and check on it.
01:11:57 Like every complaint they got, they had to go check up on, and it took up a lot of resources to go find these teens with their guides in the middle of fucking nowhere, and they just didn't they didn't like the bad press, and and look, obviously you have someone die, there's going to be a criminal investigation, so he was charged with negligent homicide and a couple of counts of child abuse, but was found not guilty because they they said that or the jury said they failed to prove that it was for sure the cause of death was dehydration and maybe not something that would have just happened to her under normal conditions.
01:12:39 But I don't know. I think it's it's probably safe to say she probably would not have died if she if she had not been marching to the desert at 6000 feet or whatever it was and 100 degrees. You know, she just wasn't she wasn't built tough. She wasn't built tough enough to to withstand that. And after this case, even though he was found not guilty, they kind of you know shut down the whole organization, and also he got sued by the family, even though he wasn't found criminally responsible. He lost the civil suit, and so they.
01:13:16 I think the judgment was something in the neighborhood of a quarter of a million dollars, but also the state of Utah said that he couldn't operate anymore, and this this is when things sort of start to go off the rails. This is this is when things start to go a little bit off the rails with mr. Cartasano here. So unable to operate in Utah with this program, he decides to start another program.
01:13:48 In this was 1992, is when they had the court case, and then after you know he gets cleared of the criminal charges, he decides, well, I'm going to open up another organization. There he is, fresh out of the courtroom, excited that he was found not guilty. He starts another company called Healthcare America. Healthcare America, you want you want?
01:14:12 Like I say, it was hard to find video on this because it was called Challenger, and I'm looking for Challenger in 1980s, and you just find the Challenger exploding. Yeah, think of a more generic name than Healthcare America. No, just Google Healthcare America and see what I can find.
01:14:31 Yeah, I made it pretty much impossible to find a lot of stuff. But Healthcare America, his his new venture, he was going to do it outside of the country, because he wanted to get away from any kind of regulations, and which was probably not the best idea.
01:14:49 So, in early 1993, he begins to operate in the Virgin Islands, and he goes to a I guess a. University that had some land there, and he approaches them and says that he's doing a international center for adolescence recovery, and gets them to agree to let them use some of their land. But I guess the agreement was that there wouldn't be any actual teenagers on the land. I don't know exactly.
01:15:21 Apparently, they they he he. From what from what I read, he basically tricked them into using the land. They found out he was actually using it for camping with with the teenagers, and the and the university told him that he couldn't do it anymore. So it gets a little murky in this this time period. It's hard to find a lot of information, and even the documentary is a little loosey goosey on the details, but from what I could find out, after being kicked off the land, they kind of got on a boat, and they were almost like, well, kind of like Elron Hubbard when when he when he was just sailing around with a bunch of people, randos doing his Scientology stuff.
01:16:02 It was a little bit like that. He had a bunch of teenagers that had been sent to him that he had nowhere to put, so he just made them work on this boat, and they went to different islands and in the Caribbean. And some of them like stayed on the boat for like nine months, like it was pretty crazy.
01:16:20 And then they ran out of money, and then by spring of 1994, in Puerto Rico, I guess they had an incident where the Puerto Rican authorities showed up because of reports that they had tied some of them to the boat so they wouldn't escape, and so that that created kind of a problem, and they the company kind of dissolved, and so then they created another company, and they created this company.
01:16:56 Let's see, or 1998 called New Hope Academy, and this one, they also they also tried to operate outside the country, and this was in Samoa. And in Samoa, they they acquired some land, but they didn't have a facility built. And their their great idea was to get the students to build the facility, and so they'd get all these drug addicted rich kids to show up in Samoa, and then have them start you know digging out trenches for plumbing and for septic systems and and and working them like slave labor.
01:17:36 Like I said, it went like dramatically off the rails, And but at the same time, it's like some of the kids that like in the documentary, in the Netflix documentary, they show this guy here, and it's like it's still impossible to ignore little aspects of of the kids that had problems with this.
01:17:59 So like this kid right here, perfect example. He's a rich kid that gets sent by his parents to this place because he's acting up, and but there's these little details get dropped, and you're like, I can't ignore this.
01:18:16 During his teenage years, Adam was just totally out of control. He couldn't stand dealing with his mother. I think a couple of times he actually threw some knives at. I remember that.
01:18:28 I was an angry kid, and I think I used being adopted as an excuse to be that way. We
01:18:34 were basically desperate and had to do something.
01:18:37 Okay, so he was adopted. So, So he was a dysgenic adopted kid, and his rich dad got mad and had buyer's remorse, and his rich dad sent him off to the jungle, and and it's and and doesn't even seem remorseful.
01:18:58 Got back to line, and it just you know took about a week before it started all over.
01:19:03 I think it was about a month, and then I, I went back to my old ways.
01:19:08 Yeah, so not a lot changed. Quite frankly, I probably should have left you down there for the rest of your life. It was it was you know for the rest
01:19:17 of my life.
01:19:17 Yes, in jungles.
01:19:22 Damn. So I mean that that that was kind of the dynamic. I feel like the reason why it was able to go so off the fucking rails is it was at this point especially because yeah he had a. I mean, people knew what had happened. So anyone that was actually researching the company that they were going to send their kid to would know that this guy was at very least involved with kids dying.
01:19:54 You know, he'd been charged with negligent homicide. By the time they had started this new company, he. Using a fake name, but I mean, there was enough news coverage to where if you did any kind of research, you'd know that like he was tied to this organization. So it was just boomers that like had buyer's remorse in this case, like because they adopted some kid that was a you know trash kid, and so it was just like a storage facility.
01:20:18 We'll just send the kid away. Well, unfortunately, you know this this was the case for a lot of kids, or at least enough kids to where you know here's the there's the the camp there, where they ended up making like the kids got their hands on it. One of the parents, I think, came to actually visit and saw the conditions that the the kids were living in, and saw that they were basically just slave labor and that they were living like animals, essentially.
01:20:54 At this point, to be fair to Steve Cartasano, he wasn't as hands on at this point, he was more just like as an advisory role because he'd been in the business long enough and he knew how to market these kinds of things. And it kind of seems like it was a little Lord of the Flies at this point. Like there wasn't a whole lot of supervision going on at the actual facility itself. And so what happened was there were some kids that had been stranded there for over a year. There was one kid that had turned 18, and so legally, like he wanted to leave, he was like, "I'm an adult now.
01:21:32 You can't like it doesn't matter if my parents sent me here. I've I've now turned 18, and I want to go home. And you you can't legally hold me here, like this is this is kidnapping at this point, and so one of the parents showed up with a video camera. They made essentially what amounts to like a hostage video. They went around and interviewed the kids, and there was this girl who was so.
01:21:59 This this is where the sexual abuse comes in. She was abused now, not by the any of the staff, but because this was in Samoa, there were well, I mean, this is there were Samoans. There was a Samoan tribe, I guess, and like there, one of the the the neighboring communities, there was a Samoan chieftain that they they worked with, and part of the way that they made nice with the natives, quite literally the natives, was that they would occasionally send these kids to go do work for the chief, and you know, I guess like manual labor, that kind of thing.
01:22:40 And unfortunately for her, when she was sent to go to the chief, the chief sexually assaulted her, and so she told the people with the video camera this. They made a video of her talking about it, and they got the video out of there and they brought it to the U.S. embassy, and eventually the U.S. embassy shut the you know shut the whole thing down, and the kids were released, and the whole that was that was basically the the the end of of at least Steve Cartasano's involvement with this kind of a program.
01:23:17 So that's how the documentary kind of ends, where it it basically makes it sound like it was it was evil from the start, and then it got like extra evil. I don't think it was evil from the start. I do think it went off the rails, and you know, it is what it is. Now the the other side of this is just like you had all these boomers outsourcing their parenting to Steve Cartesiano and his-I don't know-his camp, he ignored his own children.
01:23:50 So, in a in a weird twist of fate, while he was out there in the wilderness trying to set these kids straight and scare them straight, or teach them survival skills or whatever, because they were master manipulators and they were going to become these big drug addicts if they, unless he were to you know were to intervene, he was ignoring his own children, and his own children became drug addicts, and I don't mean like just kind of like pot smoking drug addicts, like heroin addicts, like actual heroin addicts, like after-school special heroin addicts that were that began stealing like TVs and VCRs from their parents and selling them at pawn shops so they could buy heroin.
01:24:35 So this is his son, his son that is currently in prison and was like a massive drug addict. His daughter, this is his daughter. Same thing. She became like this massive, like crack whore, and she finally went to rehab and and got straightened out. And then at the very end of the documentary, I. Have to include it, but I have I have I have suspicions about the veracity of these claims. But the the girl that earlier said that she had a good time said that in retrospect she now in recent years decided that he was actually grooming her and inappropriately touched her at some point. Now I don't know.
01:25:21 Maybe that happened, but it was just a little weird the way that it was like. Oh, I had a great time, but then now that I'm thinking about it, I was molested. So it's like maybe, maybe I don't know. But he got out of the business entirely, moved to Oklahoma. I think he got divorced and then died of a heart attack in 2019, 2019, and then they had the documentary released in 2023.
01:25:51 So anyway, that was the Challenger Foundation, one of many such programs, and these programs go on today. And like I said, when I first looked into this, I was expecting it to be just total nightmare scenario. Everyone getting molested, everyone getting raped, everyone just getting abused. It to just be like this horrible, horrible thing. And after looking at all the data, I'm just not convinced that that's what it was. I think that's kind of what it turned into at the end when they were in Samoa and all that shit.
01:26:26 But I think when it was just in the Utah desert, I think it was, you know, I think their heart was in the right place, and I think that that's not the way to run something like that, you know, because of all the reasons we already discussed. But I don't think it was fundamentally bad. I think it's a it it kind of it kind of I mean that's it it kind of highlights the the problem with boomer parenting, where they wanted to just pay someone to take care of the problem. You know, in the same way that they wanted to medicate their kids with ADD medication or SSRIs. They didn't want to actually just take care of their kids themselves.
01:27:07 They wanted to just pay some guy that would that would fix their kid for them. And it didn't. It doesn't even make any financial sense because his program cost anywhere between 15 to $20,000 in 1988 money. And you'd have, I mean, first of all, just to have that kind of money, you have to be fairly wealthy. And even if you're fairly fairly wealthy and you're making a lot of money, you're probably not so wealthy that you're making that much money in two months, which is how long the program is.
01:27:35 So it doesn't make any sense to me that if you're that worried about your kid, why you wouldn't just take two months off of work and save, I mean, 20,000. I mean, unless you're making 10 $10,000 a month, which a lot of these parents probably weren't, why wouldn't you just take two months off and take your kid camping for two months if if you thought I was going to help them that much, or or do a program with them, you know, for that kind of that kind of money. So it just didn't make any sense to me, unless you know it's boomer parents that just don't didn't want to deal with it.
01:28:10 And if you look at that that that Donahue episode, even the parents that were pleased with the results, I mean, the way she talked about it, the mother that was that was on the side of the Challenger Foundation was saying that oh we we tried everything we sent our daughter away to like all these other programs probably spent 10s of 1000s of dollars doing that and all you had to do was take your daughter camping for a couple months and it would have straightened her out.
01:28:38 So like I said it's I then I I went into this thinking it was going to be like this abuse nightmare, and you know, kind of ended up that way. But I think that more there's a lot more to this story, and that is the story, I guess, of the Challenger Foundation, the dump pump. Anyway, all right, let's take a look at super chat, shall we? We're gonna go Odyssey first. Gonna go to Love and Division, always on Odyssey. I still, I still think it's funny. Lava Division says, "Cat you on the replay.
01:29:42 Well, I appreciate that, and hello to you in the future. All right, going over to Rumble. Supreme Rabbi Satan says, "Davon, here are my standard six shekel plus one for retarded faggot. I do not want anyone to know. I gave you seven total, so do not read this out loud. Too late, too late. Then we got Gorilla Hand says I was thinking about our dystopian future, and it's not going to be Terminator or Matrix.
01:30:14 Our future will be like the more recent time machine, diverse Eloy or Goyim on the surface with the elites, it's been a long. I I sort of know what you're talking about. It's been a long time since I've seen or read. I read Time Machine like when I was like 11. So and I I remember the I did a I did a video on one of the movies right or no I I did a this was almost 10 years ago now I think I did a video comparing the the old and the new movie. Grill Hands also says Morlocks will be controlling the cattle from their underground bunkers.
01:30:52 They probably already are. Have you heard Trump's 90 day lift on tariffs for beef? This will give us access to inferior beef or just more goy slop. This is this and data centers taking all our water is making us dependent on the system. I'm not too worried about data centers taking our water, to be honest. I think there's that's there's a lot of worry about data centers, and I'm just not that worried about it. Then we got D Rock 3347 says match and cheers. Well, I appreciate that. Then we got Team White says Devon.
01:31:34 I believe you espoused value or your espoused values have changed. Nonetheless, you have the best white mind and skills at finding obscure history and storytelling. I'll catch the replay. What value you have to tell me? You can't just tell me my values have changed and then not say what what values those are, because I don't I don't think my values have fundamentally changed. I think that everyone's values evolve over time as you gain more knowledge and experience, and mine mine have certainly changed in some ways. I mean, fuck! If you go back far enough, I didn't know anything about the JQ.
01:32:12 I mean, my views on race have instinctually always been the same, but those those have evolved as well. Yeah, I'd be curious to know what you think that I've changed so much on. Let's see here. Then we got a big dono from Unreconstructed Rebel.
01:32:36 Money is power. Money is the only weapon that the Jew has to defend himself with. Look how
01:32:42 Jewy this bag is! All right, Unreconstructed rebel says Southern pride worldwide. Absolutely, thank you very much for that very, very generous Dono. Unreconstructed Rebel, have haven't seen you here. Haven't you? You've been gone like I feel like the last few streams. It's good to see you back. Good to see you back. And then we got a gigantic dono. Gigantic dono. From Cassandra says.
01:33:30 Cash flow checkout.
01:33:38 I'd like to return this duck.
01:33:44 I don't know. I just hit a bunch of buttons there. Did I hit the microphone button? Yeah. Okay. I thought I was muted for a second. All right. Cassandra simply says hi. Well, right back at you. Thank you very much. Always very, very generous, Penelope, and that's gonna get you on a beehive, obviously. So let's-I think you're up to like six. I'm gonna run out of hives.
01:34:12 There we go. Or you might be up to seven, actually, because I think I have you down here as two different people. All right. Then we got a unreconstructed rebel again. Says any beehives named for founding stock from Dixie. Let me see. You you should be in here. I feel like.
01:34:34 Let me look at my list here. You're not in here, but you should be. I think it's because I wasn't keeping the list, I know you've you've you've been generous in the past. I'm gonna you know I'm gonna put you in here. We should just have a hive with a Confederate flag on the top.
01:34:58 Go.
01:35:00 Called the Dixie Hive. How about that? All right, then we got Beach Boys, Beach Boys with another big dono. We got all kinds of big donos tonight. Money is power. Money is the only weapon that the Jew has to defend himself with. Look how Jewy this bag is. All right, Beach Goys says best stream on the internet. Well, I appreciate that, Beach Boys, Beach boys doing the heavy lifting.
01:35:45 All right, then we got Bleak Orb. All right, Bleak Orb wants a FBI. I think it's in here somewhere. Where is it? It's one of the. It's one of the oldie ones. Let me see. Ah, yep, yep. The goddamn FBI. There we go. Bleak Orb wanted the goddamn FBI, so there we go.
01:36:27 And actually, you wanted a Heil Hitler also. A Heil Hitler, bitch. There you go. Thank you very much, Bleak Orb. Then we got Ria, 1981 says 7-11. All right, 711, as in like the convenience store, or is that is that code for something? Ria also says J Ray 91 here, still lurking since day one. Base dev, hail retarded faggot. Yeah, it's been a long time since we've had retarded faggot in these parts.
01:37:03 The magic Negro.
01:37:05 That's not the right one. That's not the right one either. Oh well, doesn't matter. All right. So is J Ray? Is this your new? Is this your new new name, Rhea? Rhea, 1981. I don't know. Do I sound retarded? Then I feel retarded the night. I feel a little retarded the night, guys. I think it's because I drank too much coffee earlier today. I had too much of that stupid creme brulee coffee.
01:37:36 I've had like a whole pot of this shit, and now I'm like burned out. Ah, and then Rayon 19 one says, "Oops, sorry, the 711 thing was a typo. Okay, I was wondering what that meant. Just got a DEI job, being a white man here in Vegas, being the minority. Finally, just found out how to donate again. Well, I appreciate that. I well, I mean, if you're in Vegas and you're a minority, that could be really any job. You know, you work at a casino. I don't think I've seen a white person work at a casino in a long time.
01:38:09 But thank you very much, J Ray slash Ray, 1981. Then we got someone stole my bike. Says hope all is well, Professor. Going to have to join the replay gang. Well, I appreciate that. Someone stole your bike. Then we got iron, iron soldier. Although it could be iron, iron of solder. Is it soldier or solder?
01:38:35 Looks like solder. White power. Oh, we did that one. White power. Iron of solder says that's got to be solder, like soldering iron. I told you I'm feeling retarded today. All right, Iron of Solder says, "Thanks for being here when I needed you. My sons are John Connor, and my wife is based. Appreciate your grind. You need to know that you are moving the needle. Thank you. Well, I appreciate that.
01:39:15 Appreciate that very much, Iron of Solder. Hope you're you're soldering many things. I've actually got a soldering iron right here next to me, right here. I don't know if you can hear that. That's it's my 500 watt. I think it's 500 watt. It's my big one. I was soldering wires to a gutted Xbox controller. Don't ask, don't ask. Little tiny micro pads. That was having to solder. It was not fun. And then and then and then I made the mistake of like, well, to hold these wires on, I'm gonna put uh, what's that stuff called um, oh the uh.
01:40:00 Epoxy. I put this epoxy over like the where I'd soldered it, thinking it was. I thought I had a good connection. Found I didn't. Then I had to get a Dremel tool and and grind the fucking epoxy off so I could resolder it. And then I accidentally ground through the fucking. It's long day, long day. Anyway, thank you very much, Iron of Sodder. All right, then we got Spartan Sardukar says Master Manipulator equals Jewish calculator.
01:40:31 There you go. Then we got Theo the Theo Thurgy Theo Thirgi, I think, says, "Please talk more about current events. No one cares what happens 50 to 100 years ago. Well, actually, a lot of people care. Like, if you don't, those who don't know history are are damned to repeat it. And if you want it, look. If you want to watch a current event show, that's not this show. I mean, there's a million shows you could watch.
01:41:01 There's so many shows where all they do is that this is what happened on Twitter today, and I could do that, but it'd be fucking boring because everyone else fucking does that. So I mean, sorry, sorry Theo the guy. There's lots. There's lots of stuff out there for you, and look, sometimes I will if I think it's important, but there's just not. I mean, what's what happened this week?
01:41:25 You know, like what's what's the big important stuff that happened this week? Let me see here. Well, let's see here. There's the the the thing Iran still going on, right? There's is that I mean that's it, right? Like it's slow news week. Out of all the weeks for you to request that, this is probably not the week to do it. There's not a whole lot going on. I could just be like, yeah, well, I ran. Still, all right. Purple Capment says thanks, Devon. You should do wilderness training for teens, but do some vetting.
01:41:58 See, that's the thing: is it's you can't run an organization like that and just have it open to the public. Like the only way something like that would actually work, I think, and not have crazy shit happen, is if it was a communal type of thing. And even then, you might have some problems. You can't just send people out in the wilderness and expect there to never be problems, you know.
01:42:24 So I mean, like I get the idea behind it, and I think that it, you know, it started out probably as a good idea, and you know, I think that it probably helped a lot of people, and I think that you know, like on paper, it makes sense to some degree, but I just you know long term it's it's a bad idea and it's just a bad idea for the parents you know it's a bad idea unless you you these are people that you know these are people that you have some kind of you know connection to to just send them your kid and be like fix fix my fucking kid for me all right let's see here.
01:43:02 Scroll, scroll, scroll. We got unreconstruct the rebel again. Says I'm bummed out. I'm in AR. I'm assuming that means Arkansas, and it looks like the Dems are going to win the Senate this year. Tom Cotton is a piece of shit. The Boomers still choose chose him in the primaries over the other options were fucked. Yeah, Tom Cotton's a big Zionist, and that's why the boomers like him. I don't know, like you know how I feel about political solutions. I
01:43:30 don't think it really matters, honestly. I don't think that it's it's gonna really make a whole lot of difference when it comes to what's best for white people long term who wins the midterms. I just don't. I don't think it. You know, I think it's irrelevant. Honestly, I've I've given up on the whole political process.
01:43:51 So I think that you know getting getting emotionally invested in in in the midterms is you know probably not not the best use of of your of your time, but I get I get you I feel you. All right, then we got Anime Extremist says this week marks my six year anniversary of sobriety from abusing pills. I still have a long way to go in life, but I am no longer shackled by addiction. Well, congratulations, anime extremist for six years sober.
01:44:28 That's very good. That's very good. Yeah, it's it's. I I never got addicted to pills, but I could see how you could. I got in a car accident when I was younger, and I broke my clavicle, and they gave me Percocet, and Percocet was like the most wonderful feeling. Like, and when my my prescription ran out, I I I request requested more pills because it was it was such a wonderful feeling. And the doctor reluctantly gave me some more, but then warned me. He was like, "You know, this is you're not. You know, these are very addictive.
01:45:08 I'm not. This is these are the last time I'm gonna I'm gonna give you some more, but I'm gonna give you a lower amount, and that's the last ones you're gonna get. And you know, I weaned myself up because I realized I liked them too much, and so I started taking like a half a pill, you know, and and I tapered off when I so I wouldn't have to just go cold turkey because they it felt great. I love taking those fucking pills, so I can see how people would get addicted to those things, but that was never my thing.
01:45:36 I I I was definitely a pothead, and I would you know as much as people say you can't get addicted to that. I mean, I don't know how what else you would call it-smoking every single day, and then having a hard time sleeping when you don't-which is where I was at a couple times in life, and I'm glad I don't do that anymore. So congratulations! And then we have Cassandra says again with a another enormous dono.
01:46:03 I am not meant to defect, and I don't see why. How can the doctor say that I am meant to defeat?
01:46:14 Hey, girl, you hungry?
01:46:17 Fuck you,
01:46:21 nigga. just hitting buttons again. Thank you very much, Cassandra says, and Cassandra says, Devon, don't worry about my bees, just enjoy. Well, I'll tell you, you're you're getting another hive whether you like it or not. That's uh, we're up to like seven or eight, you're gonna like own half the bees in the bee yard. There we go. You have been you've been added to the roster yet again.
01:46:53 Thank you very much. I really appreciate that. People might know Cassandra's Penelope, longtime supporter of the show, friend of the show, very much appreciate that. Keeping the lights on. All right, scroll, scroll, scroll. We got Rocco d2 says live mouse churro fund. Churro has been gone today. Churro left last night and has not returned. Sure, it's not a big deal, but I do worry about him when he every time this happens.
01:47:29 I don't know. Usually, usually he comes. He comes when it when this happens. He comes during the show. He hasn't. He hasn't showed up, but I'm sure it's fine. I think it's because I forgot to fill up his food in his little his little room, so he's probably off off eating eating from getting getting cat food from some crazy old lady out there in the desert. All right, then we got night train. Let's see here.
01:48:14 Night Train says, "I think most of these kids would end up in the same place regardless. Well, I'll tell you what. Um, I think that's true of a lot of the kids. I think that the kids that, um, I mean, because you got to think of it this way: it's it's two months, and and just like that guy that the the adopted kid that came back and and he was like, oh yeah, after like you know his dad was like, after a week, you just went right back to being a drug addict.
01:48:44 If your parents suck so bad that that's what that's how they're dealing with your behavior, they're just sending you off. My guess is that it probably didn't have a lasting effect on on a whole lot of them, because their parents were uninvolved, and their parents, in the same way that the parents that medicate their kids aren't going to get the behavioral changes that they are hoping for with some magic pill, they're not going to get behavioral changes that are lasting by sending them off to the desert.
01:49:15 That said, I still think I would have had a good time. I don't know that it would have changed me. You know, I don't think that I would have come back a new person, but I would I would have enjoyed learning how to like make fire and cook, you know, sheep with horsehair. So I don't know. I think I think it. I don't think it was. I think it would have been like a positive for a lot of people.
01:49:37 I think a lot of people would have found it positive. But lasting life changes, I don't know. Probably not. Rivers of Blood says someone close to me went to a similar camp like this around 20 years ago. It definitely definitely made a difference in their life. It was a success story. Great stream as always.
01:49:56 Yeah. See, there you go. Now I'll tell you what. I actually had a bad. I had a friend that had bad experience with one of these programs when I was a a freshman in high school. Actually, the kid that that first gave me pot to smoke, his parents, because he was a big pothead, sent him to one of these things. I don't. It wasn't this one. I don't think is wherever he went, there was snow. In fact, he went there over Christmas break, and when he came back, he was weird. He was really weird.
01:50:28 He told us about how on Christmas Day they gave him a single square of Hershey's chocolate, like a like a you know one of the little cubes, and like that was like the most wonderful thing in the world because of how much they had they had deprived him of of food and stuff, but he was really weird when he came back, like really weird, like a crazy person, weird. And we all stopped hanging out with him because he was so fucking weird.
01:50:54 Found out later he was molested when he was out there, so bad shit did happen on a lot of these places, or a lot of these programs, and you know, like I said, it's it's a bad idea generally. It's a bad idea generally to send your kids off to with strangers out in the woods, but you know, it. I I I I could see how there'd be success stories as well. All right, guys, we're gonna shut her down.
01:51:25 It looks like ah, my brain, my brain is not working. I've had too much caffeine today, is what it is. Too much caffeine. Anyway, we'll be back here at 5o'clock p.m. on Wednesday for an episode of Outlaws, and then we'll probably-I might-I don't know-I might take next next Saturday off. I might. I'm thinking about it. We'll see. I'll let you guys know. I-I kind of need a break. I need like a day off.
01:52:00 Like a day off. I need a day off where I can get some stuff done around here that's been piling up, and yeah, I just need a day off. So anyway, hope you guys have a good rest of your weekend, and I'll see you here on Wednesday at 5o'clock p.m. In the meantime, for Black Pilled, I am of course
01:52:28 Devon Stack.
01:52:32 They gave us men playing in women's sports doesn't work. My wife hates when I do that. She says it's so unpresidential, darling. I said I won in a landslide. No, she said she doesn't like when I do the swimming routine or the weightlifting routine. I said, darling, I won in a landslide. It's okay, and she hates when I dance to that great to the gay national anthem-that's what it is. It's called the gay national anthem. You know, I got the highest gay vote in the history of politics for a Republican, and and I played the gay national anthem. So you know what can I tell? I'll take it. We're going to take it. We got the highest of everything.